Exclusive:'Extreme' Kate Forbes could 'cook up' watered down conversion therapy ban, Patrick Harvie warns

Speaking to The Scotsman ahead of the Scottish Greens’ conference in Greenock this weekend, Mr Harvie also warned there is “tension” between those backing independence having urgency for Scotland to leave the UK, but admitted many “don’t see an immediate path” to delivering it.

The Greens are going into the conference as an opposition party after Humza Yousaf tore up the Bute House Agreement between the Scottish Government and Mr Harvie’s party. That move led to the Greens refusing to back Mr Yousaf in a vote of no confidence that ultimately ended his leadership.

But Mr Harvie said the response to being turfed out of government was not “driven by an emotional reaction”. 

Read more: Humza Yousaf admits huge regret over Kate Forbes following bitter SNP contest

Amid anger from some party members over his and co-leader Lorna Slater’s role in the Bute House Agreement ending, Mr Harvie suggested he thought about his own future, but will make a decision next year as to whether he will put himself forward for the party leadership again - with rules setting out re-election every two years.

Asked if he considered his own future, Mr Harvie said: “Of course, you think about it”.

Read more: Fury as 'tactically inept' SNP ministers still letting Greens dictate policy

But he added: “I think it was very clear that most people I spoke to in our party during that period just before the SNP ended the Bute House Agreement, who had concerns, wanted their concerns addressed instead of just wanting the deal ended. 

“They wanted improvements rather than us walking away. I think that’s probably the way our party would have voted.”

He added: “I think it’s a shame that we weren’t able to see a completion of that internal debate within the Scottish Greens. 

“I guess both of us will make a decision nearer the time. For the time being, our role is very clear. We need to put pressure on the SNP to deliver. If they don’t - if they water down, cancel or stall that kind of work, we need to hold them to account for it.”

Read more: Inside the Scottish Budget negotiations, as Greens want policies woven into SNP plans

The Greens are one of one two parties, along with the Scottish LibDems, who could realistically support the Scottish Government budget for it to pass.

The Greens are now poised to pull the plug on the Scottish Government’s troubled national care service, with a motion at this weekend’s conference calling for the party to withdraw support.

The party’s leadership is also facing a motion from members that would require any budget agreement with the SNP that “provides real-terms increases in council funding” as a red line.

Reflecting on the Greens’ time in government of almost three years, Mr Harvie described it as an “unexpected opportunity” to “build change on a scale that we’d never done before”.

He added that the Greens in government “got the ball rolling on a number of really important policy areas”. He added that there is “now an opportunity to continue to deliver that”, but warned that progress is “at threat if the SNP decides to listen to the wrong set of voices”.

The Greens have previously propped up Ms Forbes’ budgets, which allocated funding to their priorities. But Ms Forbes relinquished her role as finance secretary when she went on maternity leave in July 2022. 

Various reports have suggested the now-deputy first minister signed off the now defunct gender recognition reforms bill as a member of Nicola Sturgeon’s Cabinet, but more recently stated she would have voted against the legislation if she had not been on maternity leave.

The Greens have previously raised concerns about Ms Forbes social views including her opposition to equal marriage - and also her economics Mr Harvie has branded “conservative”.

When asked over her views on LGBT rights when she returned to the govenrment, Ms Forbes did not explicitly state she supported improved rights, instead saying she will support the Scottish Government’s agenda to “improve and progress the rights of all of Scotland's communities”.

Mr Harvie said: “John Swinney appointed someone as deputy first minister, someone who had very recently come out with extreme social conservative positions as well as some fairly clear conservative economic positions, that again was a serious cause for concern. Those concerns remain.”

The First Minister did not include a promised bill for a full ban on conversion therapy in his first programme for government last month - but has stressed plans will be moved forward in co-operation with the Labour UK government which has committed to a similar agenda.

Mr Harvie said: “The conversion therapy position is going to be a really critical test of whether the government’s commitment to equality can really still be trusted by the people whose lives are more affected by those kinds of decisions.

“What we’ve seen is someone who has sat in Cabinet and signed off the gender recognition reform bill then eventually said they wouldn’t have voted for it. Now if you sit in Cabinet and you sign off a bill that you don’t support, there’s one very principled decision that you can take in that scenario and she didn’t. 

“So they are now saying that they still support the conversion practices ban and a full comprehensive ban.

He added: “I think we should introduce that bill at Holyrood. If the UK bill then comes forward that means it’s going to do the same thing, then okay, fair enough. But there’s a very, very strong likelihood, given the state of the Labour party on some of these issues, that they will come up with some kind of fudge that tries to play to both sides.

“I don’t see a reason not to publish that bill in the Scottish Parliament now and then at least we have the option to legislate for ourselves.

Read more: Former SNP MP delivers 'brutal' verdict to John Swinney and says Kate Forbes' views 'archaic' and 'extreme'

“That would let us see the strength of will the Scottish Government has. Are the ministers who have advocated for equality all along still in charge of equality or is there some kind of compromise being cooked up.” 

Mr Harvie suggested his party backing the SNP budget is dependent on the Scottish Government recapturing some of the priorities taken forward during the Bute House Agreement and warned against backing the SNP’s spending plans that committed to expanding road capacity on routes such as the A9 or A96.

Mr Harvie said: “Where it’s about expanding capacity, that’s only going to drive up more demand and lock in higher levels of pollution. That’s not something that we can support.

“There are some really important tests for them. Are they still committed to that as a principle or are they going all Fergus Ewing on us.”

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The Scottish Government is committed to ending conversion practices in Scotland which aim to change or suppress a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity. They are damaging and destructive acts that violate people’s human rights.

“We are engaging constructively with the UK government as we work to end these harmful practices. It is right that we fully explore a cross-government, cross-party approach. At the same time work is ongoing so that legislation can be introduced to the Scottish Parliament in the event that a UK-wide approach is not achievable.”