Memorable conversation with Pope Francis showed his moral courage and sense of humour

He was a man who carried his own luggage; washed the feet of women, prisoners, and Muslims as a sign of his humility and their inclusion; visited war zones, prisons and slums; recognised the reality of environmental catastrophe; and spoke truth to power.

Pope Francis rarely shied away from speaking out and speaking up. His ministry went to the frayed edges of the 21st century because it was there he felt we would encounter those in greatest need, and the God who had not forgotten them. This meant speaking out against and apologising for areas in his own Church’s past regarding the abuse of children and poor treatment of women.

Honest unity in purpose and faith

During Pope Francis’s pontificate, the improving relations between the Church of Scotland and the Catholic Church in Scotland continued. In 2022, the St Margaret Declaration was signed making clear the things the two churches have in common are greater than those that divide them. Pope Francis was a committed advocate for honest unity in purpose and faith.

I had the privilege of spending time with him in 2017. Going into his official apartments, I asked how much time we would have, an official said, “Either five minutes and you’ll talk about the weather in Scotland… or it will be longer.” An hour and a half later, the official had to come in to advise we had desperately overrun the timetable, and were keeping another ecumenical visitor waiting. It turned out to be the Archbishop of Canterbury.

We talked about the role of women in the church. Pope Francis was interested in the (slightly different) role of deacon in the Church of Scotland. Deacons, first women and then men, have played a part in the church’s life for over a century. The Pope had recently set up a commission to study the role of women deacons in the early Christian church.

We talked about the crises in Myanmar and Israel-Palestine, and what mediating roles Christians might play. Francis was particularly interested in the Kirk's concern about human trafficking and modern-day slavery and shared a concern about the fate of migrants and refugees.

A longer table, not a higher fence

We shared a mutual commitment to work together in the face of national and international anxiety over sectarianism, anti-semitism and Islamophobia, saying “if we are in a position of privilege, it’s better to build a longer table than a higher fence”.

One last memory. We exchanged gifts. He was taken with the food hamper I’d brought, particularly the shortbread and malt whisky – “the Holy Water”, he said. After our informal discussion we moved to the formal part of events, taking up seats at the far end of the room.

As we sat down, I noticed him looking at my feet, and pointing at my yellow socks with red polka dots. Twinkling, he laughed: “These are not the socks of a Presbyterian!” Days later, back in Edinburgh, I received a package from Gammarelli, the papal outfitters. It was a pair of knee-length, red silk cardinal’s stockings.

The Very Revd Dr Derek Browning